In May 2003, three years before her death, Machiko Soga sat down with a fan and talked about Hedrian, Bandora and the day she took off her makeup on the Zyuranger set. Kyoudai Express has translated the whole conversation.
Machiko Soga was born on March 18, 1938, in Hachioji, Tokyo, and got into television through her voice: in 1965 she became Q-taro in the first Obake no Q-taro anime, a hit with 40 percent ratings. Tired of being recognized as Oba-Q in the street, she quit in the early 1970s, spent almost three years between Italy, Syria and Afghanistan and came back determined to transform herself. The transformation came through villainesses.
The witch God Iguana in Rainbowman (1972) was the first. The witch Belbara in 5-nen 3-kumi Mahogumi (1976) won Toei over, and in 1980 Queen Hedrian in Denshi Sentai Denjiman opened the line of evil queens she would carry for 12 years: the same Hedrian resurrected in Taiyo Sentai Sun Vulcan (1981), Queen Pandora in Jikuu Senshi Spielvan (1986) and the witch Bandora in Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger (1992), whose footage became Rita Repulsa in Mighty Morphin Power Rangers around the world. Between series she ran the antique shop Stella in Kunitachi, where she received fans, and she returned to Toei one last time in 2005 as the Heavenly Saint Magiel in the Mahou Sentai Magiranger movie. She died on May 7, 2006, at 68.
The interview below was conducted in 2003 by Yukinko of HERO BOX, a Japanese Super Sentai fan site. Kyoudai Express recovered this exceedingly rare conversation and translated it in full. In three blocks, one per series, Soga talks about costumes paid from her own pocket, the tape measure scene in Denjiman, the Sun Vulcan disguises she no longer remembered, the Zyuranger script with a single line of dialogue and the afternoon she took off her makeup and threatened to leave the show over a spell read backwards.
01The first queen
Let's start with Denjiman, in chronological order. You've probably answered this in other interviews, but I'd love to hear how the offer to play the queen came about.
The offer came because Toki Shiozawa, who played the witch Iguana in Ai no Senshi Rainbowman, got fed up with the heavy wrinkle makeup she had to wear to turn into an old woman. The part came to me, and it was my first villain in a tokusatsu show. Whenever I say "first," the fans correct me and bring up Kappa no Sanpei. But I took that job only because it sounded like fun. I never set out to specialize in that kind of role. What attracted me was the idea that an actor does everything. There was no plan to build a brand along the lines of "a queen or a witch, call Machiko Soga." When Toki Shiozawa left, I thought it would be interesting to try, and that's how the witch God Iguana came about. I thought seriously about how to build the part so I could enter that world. I was doing a lot of theater at the time, and I realized all I had to do was play it the way you play a Shakespeare classic, with a full voice. A villain in that kind of show is different from a regular drama: it demands exaggeration, stage diction and stage movement. I went into Rainbowman amused by the name "Shine Shine Dan" [the villain organization of the series], but I'll admit the acting in general didn't appeal to me. I still did my best with my own part. After that, for personal reasons, I took a long trip through the Middle East, and when I came back I felt I had to transform myself into something. The first transformation was a witch, in 5-nen 3-kumi Mahogumi. Playing the witch was a delight. I thought, "This is my world!" Toei was pleased too, because the ratings stayed in double digits from beginning to end, and they even went to the sponsor, the toy company, to try to keep the series going. The answer was that they wanted to sell new toys and needed a different show. So it was decided they would do something in a new format. One day they showed me the proposal for Denjiman. There were plenty of places in it where the image of witch and queen I wanted to create could grow. I thought, "I can do this, and I'm going to think up ideas together with them." So when the design for Queen Hedrian arrived, I pointed out that the exposed ears killed the elegance, and I made the piece myself. Theater works the same way: you rent the kimono, but when it suits the character to look fuller, the actress prepares the costume and the accessories herself. Since I have that habit, I think now that I should have billed them for it. A lot of pieces came out of my own pocket (laughs).
I've read that a lot of it was yours, the shoes for instance.
Skimping on that kind of thing looks stingy. If you want to make an impact, that's where you don't hold back on money. Whatever the script specifies, the wardrobe department provides. Whatever it doesn't specify, I thought it was natural to provide myself. If someone said "fake nails here," I'd go straight to the store and buy several identical sets in case one fell off. And I'd buy glittery lame in bulk, all at once.
02Costumes out of her own pocket
In that sense, the Hedrian of Sun Vulcan used many more costumes, with all those disguises.
The disguises for walking around town, for example, were all mine.
Really?
Yes, because the studio's clothes were generic pieces. When she disguises herself as a secretary and walks down the street, nothing in the stock really fits. It looks tacky, forgive my bluntness. At the Toei costume fitting I'd put it on out of obligation, then say "I'd like to go in this direction," make a quick sketch of the clothes I had at home, mark the colors and ask what they thought. The answer was always "Then do it that way, Soga."
And it ended up all coming from your own wardrobe.
I was happy with it, and the result was better than any random outfit.
Ordinary clothes would have looked dull.
An ordinary person doing that has too many restrictions and is scared to death. With me it's the opposite: there are no restrictions at all. An actress from a conventional drama, dressed like that, can't strike a grand pose or let out a scream. And doing what nobody else can is exactly what I enjoy. On stage I know how to do the ordinary too. That fun is related to the "crazy" of the villain in The Pink Panther. I like the chaotic, the messy. But being a queen, you need a bit of dignity as well.
03A queen with something human
The first Hedrian, the one in Denjiman, was like that.
Exactly. She's the boss of the villains, so she can't be screaming all the time. What I call "chaotic" is when the character does everything properly and then suddenly slips up. That's comedy. I wasn't trying to do comedy. I played the queen, but inside her there had to be something human.
The femininity came through clearly.
It had to come through. When something mechanical shows up, the tendency is to imagine a robot's delivery, halting and stiff. Nobody can sit through that, it just wastes time. So she talks normally, she's still a queen, but there's always something funny in there.
And it really did come through.
Deep down, I wanted to show several sides at once. I wanted a performance that each viewer could read however they liked.
It's true, every person felt Hedrian differently. Some found her scary, and some found her feminine and cute.
And some found her scatterbrained. That's what I love about Sentai shows: the freedom to do whatever you want.
Especially on the villains' side.
Yes, that's where you can be free. The leading man has to be a leading man, and if he stumbles without the acting to back it up, it's embarrassing. Our side can relax. That's why the feeling was that I couldn't stop. I didn't expect it to last forever, but somewhere in my heart there was the wish to keep going. After the success of Oba-Q, I wanted to hit the bull's-eye as a witch and a queen. But that can't show on your face. The audience has to like it on their own, and the production, Toei, has to come to the conclusion to call me again by itself. I can't ask for anything. My job was to express myself, to have fun freely and to enjoy the moment. Recognition I decided to treat as a bonus (laughs).
The fun showed. Watching it today, you can tell you were enjoying yourself.
Hedrian was my first real queen.
Yes.
Until then, God Iguana was more witch than queen, Mahogumi was a witch, and in Kappa no Sanpei I played a kind of monster. A queen requires a queenly air. That's why I traveled the world, saw the treasures of queens, tasted a little of the elegant life in castles and breathed that air. Since I'd already read books about queens from various countries, I was prepared. But playing a queen is hard, and normally nobody can pull it off. Women with a queen's bearing usually have a model's body, slender, and in exchange they can't stumble, because they can't act. There are plenty of people who look like queens.
As long as they just stand there.
Just standing there, lots of people look like queens. But then the work has no fun in it (laughs). Playing witches and queens, every episode all I thought about was having fun and how to work pleasantly with everyone. I never bothered to get in good with the bosses, and I never flattered a producer. I preferred to team up with the lighting crew and the people around me. Those who acted badly may have thought I was a terrible person, because I'd get carried away and say "do it this way, it'll be better." People may tell me to mind my own business, but the Vader clan, in particular, had to be tight. One person acting well is not acting well. It takes unity and firmness. When I gave an order, everyone had to move at once. Without that initial tension, the scene falls flat. I started talking about the bosses and ended up on the underlings, but if I keep going it'll all turn into the same story, so I'll stop here (laughs).
04Hedrian returns from the ice
And Queen Hedrian carried straight on into Sun Vulcan.
I found out along the way that they were going to use Hedrian again. I was already planning to travel somewhere far as soon as Denjiman ended. I heard about it in winter, when shooting was wrapping up.
Near the end of Denjiman?
When there were only a few episodes left, they told me the idea was more or less that. I couldn't answer that it wasn't possible, let alone mention a trip. I asked whether it would be with Hedrian, and I assumed she'd appear in Sun Vulcan in the same costume from the start.
That would have been tricky.
I thought that if it were the same, I'd keep the feeling I had then, but the surroundings were going to change, and I needed to understand how. I asked to see the design. Since the project was already starting, the drawings had to be ready. I was focused on Denjiman, so I asked them to explain Sun Vulcan to me from the illustrations. They told me she was resurrected from inside the ice and given an artificial heart. I understood it would be a completely different character, even with the name Hedrian. In that case, fine.
And when you saw the design for the Sun Vulcan Hedrian?
The design needed adjustments in places you don't notice at first glance.
Did it change a lot?
Not that much. If I'd meddled too much, it would have been disrespectful to the person who did the design.
True.
In a tight situation like that, I could still have asked for corrections if it had been earlier, but with the costume already made, I started using my own props.
That's how the personal items kept adding up.
They added up. If I'd been involved from the beginning, I would never have used my own things.
Hedrian's first appearance in Sun Vulcan is striking. She changes in an instant.
Yes, from inside the ice.
The moment she wakes up, she's already different.
And she feels the new heart.
Visually, the head is enormous.
The kids called it "Marukome" [the bald mascot of a miso brand] (laughs).
Wasn't it heavy?
In my case, the question of weight was long past. In summer it slid, in winter it was cold, and every costume is like that. It's tough. The girls who played the Zero Girls left everything off until it was time to shoot. I kept everything firmly in place, however heavy it was. When the lights were being adjusted, they'd take it all off without thinking about the shadows and the details.
Taking it off in rehearsal and putting it back on for the take changes the feel.
That kind of laziness I didn't allow myself. They'd say it was their first time doing this, but on that point they were surprisingly relaxed. I never said anything, because telling them to put it on properly would have been meddling. When the acting was bad, then yes, I'd tell them to act properly. Laziness turns against the person herself later on. She has to notice it on her own. On the take a strange shadow appears, the cameraman complains and orders everything on from the start, and the actress obeys. You have to be embarrassed once to learn. I'm strict.

05The forgotten disguises
In Sun Vulcan, Hedrian uses a lot of disguises.
I don't remember them much (wry laugh). If you ask me that, I'm in trouble (laughs).
I rewatched it recently, and there's a scene where she dances in a leotard.
The leotard was in another series, Uchu Keiji Gavan, I'm almost sure.
There's one in Sun Vulcan too.
(surprised) There is?
She does Carmen, and also a Japanese dance in a kimono.
(very surprised) I'd completely forgotten that (laughs). Japanese dance? Well, I did do dance, all kinds.
She tries to seduce a man to lure the spirit of one of his ancestors and find a treasure.
How funny, just hearing it makes me want to laugh (laughs). I remembered some disguise or other, but not that.
There's also a thunder god costume.
That I do remember (roars with laughter). I was embarrassed by those thunder god pants at the costume fitting.
It was very memorable.
That's the only part I remember. I complained about the pants, but it was work, so I put them on. Of the Japanese dance and the leotard I remember nothing.
It's the same episode.
Really? So that's it, I really don't remember.
06The tape measure scene
I thought the Sun Vulcan Hedrian had a more comic touch than the Denjiman one.
That's why it changed.
There's the explanation of the new heart, but she keeps the queenly air and gains a more clownish side.
Let me tell you something. Back then I was too busy and almost never watched my own shows, but in the last two or three years I've watched some tapes that fans gave me. In Denjiman there's a scene where the underling Mirror measures my bust and waist to make a dress. In that scene I had a real fight with the actress Mikawa, who played Mirror, over her acting.
Really?
When they did it the way I improvised, it was funny, and I saw it had worked. I laughed out loud (laughs). I don't usually laugh at my own acting, but it had been so long since I'd watched that I laughed. Everyone was in sync in that scene.
Yes (laughs).
At first Mirror played it in an affected way. She'd place the tape measure on my bust with great care, pause oddly and announce "98 centimeters" or "1 meter." It was "bust... 98, waist... 98," with her staring at my bust, and it took forever.
I see.
That killed the laugh. I wasn't trying to get a laugh, but I told her to stop measuring so seriously, without worrying about a millimeter. It was a crazy show, so all she had to do was rattle off "bust 98, waist 98, hips 98" without looking so closely. Measuring slowly eats up time. When she says "98, 98, 98" mechanically, it's Hedrian who gets annoyed. While she measures, I squirm and sulk. As an actress, I could have answered her "98" with a drawn-out "nine-ty-eight," but that would have been tasteless and heavy. It's funnier when she fires off the numbers and I react.
It worked.
With the short timing, my growl gains force. When she finishes reading and I let out the growl, the viewers react with me. I explained that, she understood and started saying the numbers mechanically. General Hedrer, who was listening off to the side and about to enter the scene, started laughing. I told him to use that time to think about his next line, instead of measuring only his own part so carefully.
In Sun Vulcan, since the look had changed completely and the heart was different too, repeating the same queen would have been no fun. It couldn't be the same Hedrian under another name. That's why I wanted something lighter, and the disguises bring that lightness.
Yes, lighter than in the previous series.
From the somber she jumps to the light. That's what I wanted.
And she started going out into the streets more.
She went out all the time (laughs).
About underlings, I'll stop here. At most I'll talk about the Vader clan. In Sun Vulcan a lot happened, and I gave up on nagging the girls who played the underlings (wry laugh). With more people it got hard, and I got tired. So halfway through I passed the baton to Yukie Kagawa, the Amazon Killer, who joined later. I asked her to look after the Zero Girls for me (laughs). We're friends to this day and we talk all the time.
07Bandora and her family
Finally, Zyuranger.
Zyuranger.
I quite like that character. She has a cute side.
Bandora is a witch, and by then everything had to change, starting with the look. Besides my own part, I loved the design of Pleprechaun. Bookback and Totpat followed a sort of Wizard of Oz line, and I liked that.
I loved that family too.
The ideas for making it even better came right away. That's why I was friends with the JAC people, the suit actors inside the costumes. JAC gives them their acting direction, and it's impressive how precise the action comes out, even in a melancholy moment. But while the character is talking, a slight angle of the face subtly changes the cuteness, and there's a way of making the area around the nose look cute in an instant. I'd whisper that to whoever was inside, in secret.
I've read that she became more popular than the leads and that her lines were cut.
Until around episode 5, the people upstairs said it was a problem that Bandora looked like the lead. The leads were all newcomers, and, sorry to say it, none of them could act. I went all out and it caused a stir. They decided to cut back my appearances so I'd act less, under the illusion that the five would shine that way. They were wrong, because there were five of them. I thought my intensity was just the right measure, but they concluded that from any angle Bandora carried more weight, and that for the five to live they had to cut her lines. After episode 5 they cut without mercy. There was one script in which I had a single line.
Really?
Yes. So I got stubborn and put everything into that one line: laughter, anger, joy and sadness, every emotion in one sentence. The film crew loved it and burst out laughing. But I was serious, because I only had that one line, and I had to get the most out of it, with pauses and everything. In the end they concluded it was better to let me talk a little more, because with a single line I drew too much attention.
It stood out more.
I overdid it (laughs). It went back to a normal level, but even so the lines stayed few.

08The spell and the makeup
I liked the Bandora family more than the leads too.
It was fun, wasn't it?
With children as the heroes, it took on a family feel.
That was our intention.
And the gang even had a married couple.
Exactly. I thought we could put together something very good. But getting there involved friction with the writer. The turn toward the musical style also went through several stages, and my opinion ended up going in. By then I no longer wanted to make suggestions to the writer just to make the series more fun, but the thinking was so rigid that I actually intended to leave halfway through.
Really?
Yes. It was exactly six months into the series when, in a spell scene, they asked me to read the incantation backwards. I always created my spells myself, like "Atinie Power." When we went into shooting, the director said the production wanted the spell read a specific way. It was a string of syllables that, read backwards, spelled "itoshi no waga musuko" [my beloved son]. It was the riddle of the story, and at the end everyone would be surprised. I told them not to mess with me, that I was quitting the show right then. I said I was going to take off my makeup and that the director should tell everyone Soga had left. He asked me to wait and ran off to warn them that I was threatening to walk if I had to do it that way. The answer that came back was to do it as asked. So I explained that the writer's intention was predictable, that I had been acting seriously because I didn't want to let the audience down, and that I hadn't done all that for some dumb skit. I created my spells myself, with words from Arabic and other languages, each with a meaning. At the start the script had only loose vowels, and the director had told me that, since it was a spell, I could do it my way. Six months later they were back with loose vowels again. I wasn't going to do it, and it was no act. I took off my makeup and said there was still time to replace me, that six months into a series it was easy to invent a reason. They called the screenwriter on the spot, and he asked why I wouldn't do what he had written (laughs). I answered that it wasn't possible, that if the spell was a riddle with an obvious ending, I hadn't worked hard for six months to end in something so dull, and that if I was going to leave, the sooner the better. They asked me to wait for a phone call. The final answer was to do the spell as always, without removing my makeup. I said that if they let me do it my way, I'd stop talking about leaving. And we shot it. In the next episode, the writer, whose pride must have been wounded, came to the set to watch in secret (laughs). I noticed he was there and started saying out loud that a scene like that would be fun as a musical number. That's where Bandora's song came from (laughs).
I loved that playful mood.
It was fun. At the end, she sings while being launched into space (laughs).

09An ending built to continue
The final episode is impressive, and it was good that nobody died.
I asked them to stop with the explosions and the repeated pattern. Everyone already knew how it would end. I told the writer that viewers watch because they want to know what's going to happen, and that predictable endings drive the audience away. It was basic, but he got so annoyed that he came to hear what I had to say. Then he invented Bandora's song, liked it so much that it came back several times (laughs).
And the ending: she's sealed away, but it ends on a happy note.
I decided that at the end I was going to have fun, and I had a blast (laughs).
Bandora's last parting line was so cute.
That's why I understand why the American producer wanted Bandora as the witch Rita in Power Rangers.
You get the feeling she's coming back to Earth.
The idea is that the story continues.
It wouldn't be strange if she came back.
Not strange at all (laughs).
All it would take is someone breaking the seal.
The fun endings that feel like a to-be-continued are, as a rule, my idea.
So that one was too. There's nothing else like it.
The others I did as written.
In the earlier series Hedrian survives, but the underlings die.
In Zyuranger I made a point of leaving everything ready to continue.
It really did feel like it would continue.
Bandora was going to come back to Earth in high spirits (laughs).
It's one of my favorite endings.
And that parting line, "you'll remember me!" (laughs).
Too cute. That line too!
And I stuck my tongue out on top of it. That I added on my own (laughs).
Since it's Bandora, it's all fine (laughs).
